Clipwing Diet

[Acroeric]

Lets get a thread going on ways to get the weight out of a clipwing. I have spent lots of time trying to catch all the ways to make them light- I put an excel spreadsheet on the clipwing gallery of my ideas. The weight I used as a starting point was from my last Swick- All the weights in the columns are in ounces. If you have time look at it and let me know if you can think of anything else.

Here is a link:

http://gallery.taylorcraft.org/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=3192&g2_page=2

[mulwyk]

Re: Clipwing Diet

693 lb. Wow!

Guess you already thought of using lightweight fabric? Single seat, no cushions? One bungee each side instead of doubles? Remove wing fairings and gear fairings? Remove the cowl and run eyebrows instead? One door on pilot side, window only on passenger side. Or better yet, no doors at all, you can crawl through the window like a NASCAR racer!

Paint it silver poly-tone and eliminate the intermediate poly-spray coats? Don't paint the aluminum parts of the plane, polish them instead? Cut out the sides of the panel leaving only the center part that holds the instruments? Short floorboards only under where your feet actually rest?

Hey this is kinda fun, Eric. Maybe I'll build a lightweight clipwing myself!

Bob Gustafson

[Vasey fan]

Re: Clipwing Diet

I've actually considered the small floorboards & partial panel.

Have you ever looked in the cockpit of a Fokker DVII? What few instruments it has are just clamped in place on the tubing.

[crispy critter]

Re: Clipwing Diet

Bob,
I hope I don't step on your toes but I have a problem with one of your ideas and correcting info for another.
1st. You will not save any noticable wieght by removing 2 bungees(one each side), however this will create a very severe safty issue, one hard landing is all it will take to break just one bungee or a strong cross wing or side load will cause the gear to spread very easy causing ground handling problems.
2nd. As for the open cowling, by the time you add the eyebrows and extra pin fasteners there is almost no wieght savings and what little you might save will do you no good because of the extra drag you have...it will hurt you more then it will help. You can remove the nose grills, they don't wiegh much but ever little bit helps.

693 lb. Wow!

Guess you already thought of using lightweight fabric? Single seat, no cushions? One bungee each side instead of doubles? Remove wing fairings and gear fairings? Remove the cowl and run eyebrows instead? One door on pilot side, window only on passenger side. Or better yet, no doors at all, you can crawl through the window like a NASCAR racer!

Paint it silver poly-tone and eliminate the intermediate poly-spray coats? Don't paint the aluminum parts of the plane, polish them instead? Cut out the sides of the panel leaving only the center part that holds the instruments? Short floorboards only under where your feet actually rest?

Hey this is kinda fun, Eric. Maybe I'll build a lightweight clipwing myself!

Bob Gustafson

[crispy critter]

Re: Clipwing Diet

Eric,
You could also use a pre-war fuslage.....I wouldn't but it is lighter, fiberglass nosebowl, remove nose grills, champ exhaust, no lights, now electrics, no wing tanks...just the header, no spinner, and while your at it......no pilot, go remote control just kdding.

[mulwyk]

Re: Clipwing Diet

Kevin:

It's fun to speculate only half serious about Eric's weight saving program. And I hope Eric sees the humor here. But we all really have to admire a guy that makes a spreadsheet of this stuff and then proposes to actually DO IT.

My hats off to you, Eric. Most of us only dream.

Bob Gustafson

[crispy critter]

Re: Clipwing Diet

I agree Bob.... Eric is truely the real deal.

[Richard Boyer]

Re: Clipwing Diet

There is only one row that is missing.

Pilot L L No more biggie size at fast food restaurant


I had to implement this one during my travels some time back.


Richard

[ClipWing_T]

Re: Clipwing Diet

My project has window on the bottom and floorboards for the feet area only,
seat sling with 1 pilot cushion,no interior fabric,a smoked glass skylight,it
has the Cole single stick,no wing tanks fuselage tank only,stock wheels,O-200
Cont.with Luscome stacks,Ellison carb,Inverted oil,basic panel ,no electric and I"m hoping for 700lbs.I may out a B&C alternator and a small battery for wingtip strobes later.The best thing we can do for good performance is to push away from the supper table!! LOL
Mike R in Texas

[Acroeric]

Re: Clipwing Diet

Guys- I appreciate all the ideas! And yes- I do see the humor here- I have 3 daughters and a wife that find humor at my expense all the time;-) My list was just brainstorming and some of the things probably will never get done. Many of the items however are true tangible savings. If I can take 75 pounds off the weight of my last one I will be really happy. Things like 11 pound per side fiberglass wingtips are huge savings- that is 22 pounds right there. Plus you do not want the weight out there on the tip- it really slows the roll rate. Thanks again for all the ideas- I have considered lightweight fabric but due to the speeds I see going downhill I am not sure it would do well. Also- when doing any knife edge maneuvers there is a ton of pressure on the fuselage sides. One area of huge savings is paint- does anyone know which goes on lighter- poly tone or aerothane? I have also heard that airtech is really light.

I am going out to drill lightning holes in my door and fuselage wood fairings- there has to be 8 ounces of savings there, after that I guess I am getting the cutting wheel out and removing all the pulley brackets that will not be used.

Kevin- You still going to be here tomorrow? I will clean out the goat house so you have a comfortable place to stay- the brown things are not M&M's though.

[crispy critter]

Re: Clipwing Diet

Eric,
SuperFlite is very light when using the dope finish. Glue the fabric & tapes, 2 cross coats of UV primer,2 cross coats of color and that's it....no need for layer after layer with this process and I have tested it with surprising results.

As for the trip. I am postponing it for a day maybe two because of the snow we're getting between you and me. I don't think I want to start over any of those snow covered mountains pulling a very heavy 22 foot box trailor. I think it would be safer to fly a t-craft threw a thunderstorm. either way, I don't plan to try either one if I can help it. I'll call ya later.

[jgerard]

Re: Clipwing Diet

AFS is the lightest finishing process I have found yet. I can send you a sample if you like.

Jason
N43643

[ClipWing_T]

Re: Clipwing Diet

Eric ,My J-5 Cub weghs 750lbs empty with a 0-200 no electric and it flys
better than the New Legend Cubs they are bulding here at my area.By
better I mean quicker take-off ,lighter feel, much better climb ,so lighter
is MUCH better.A buddy of mine is one of Legend Cubs test pilots and he
has flown mine and the Legend Cub and is really impressed about the difference in the two planes. Their planes are about 75 -85 lbs heavier
same engine ,same wing (airfoil) but that weight difference especially in
hot and high density alt. days there is VERY different .My Cub also uses
the same prop that they use and is covered in Airtech with the fabric weave and the tapes showing.Legend Cub has a really nice finish but i think at a weight penalty but you got to have the mirror finish for the public I suppose.
Now back to T_CRAFTS !! LOL. Take a LIGHT BC-12 and your AVERAGE weight
L-2 and there is a world of difference the L-2 is a real DOG compared to a light BC-12,the side by side will fly circles around the tandem IMHOP I've
owned both.Now before everyone gets pissed off I LOVE the old L-2 but its
too damn HEAVY. There was a reason Taylorcraft stopped bulding them I wish they had though.That plane would be a nice one with a 0-200 !!
Now for me the best performance gain on my clipwing T would be a diet!! LOL
I weigh 275lbs. I wasn't kidding about pushing away from the supper table LOL
back when I had my BC-12D and the L-2 I weighed a 180lbs ! Hey
I'm workin on it . Keep it up Eric a with the engine mods your doing and
weight saving efforts you will have a one of kind airplane I'm
envious of course LOL
Later Mike in Texas

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Clipwing Diet

You will never piss me off! BUT I love the true L-2 ( only a few built), THEN they came up with the L-2A, B, M. All heavy becuase the Government wanted them to use wood wings... The original L-2 had the metal spars and was light and nimble. Taylorcraft only built the other ships for the war effort and never "stopped" building them . They only built to the contract for the government & none of the ships went oversees to do their "mission" because the Army Pilots were low time and crashed more than the L-4 ( Piper). The tandem was slower than the side-by-side ; C. G. knew it would be, HE did not design the ship and stated on the test flight that the narrower fusealge would slow her down. ( Read the "Taylorcraft Story" )
My father demo'd the Taylorcraft L-2 series at Fort Sill and beat them all!! A fighter ship could not even bring his guns on the Taylorcraft at low level. Remember the "Grasshopper " name came from a contest . the Taylorcraft entry was "Hedgehopper". Al Barber got down low and "hedgehopped" turning at 90 degrees over the hedge and the fighter would over shoot him every time.
Then there was the Taylorcraft Model 18 , L-2 ( DC-65), doors on both sides 125 Lyc , Diesel if you wanted it. BEST ship ever built and the factory still should consider her instead of a "TaylorCub" with an 0-200......

[ClipWing_T]

Re: Clipwing Diet

I had a L-2M and a friend of mine had a 1941? "D" with yes aluminum wings
(spars and ribs) it was a blast to fly and we read in our L-2 manual that
they were approved for acro and that was all we needed to go out and
give'm heck. At the time they were not that old ,even though we thought
they were. Around 74-75,only 30 yrs. then lol.Those wood wings on my plane
were/very strong! Guys in champs and Cubs would scold us for doing "stunt"
flying in our T-crafts but a old mant at the airport told us "A t-craft never
lost a wing in flight" I don't know if that is true or not but we believed him!!
I think about what we did now and it make me shiver LOL!.After all we had seen Duane Cole fly the hell out of a T-craft so we could too.How stupid we were ,but I'm still here so I guess the old man was right about those L-2's being STRONG. They are a GREAT plane but weak on 65 hp with two people on board ,Now that I think of it my Luscombe was too! Cool weather sure makes a difference on the lower HP planes like ours I remember talkin to
Duane Cole when he converted to the 150-160 Lyc. He said he needed it in
higher elevation and Hot weather.He liked the way it flew on the 90 hp. Cont.
better ,all the T-craft experts know that allready .What that guy could do
with 90 hp!
Later Mike