Safe West to East route

[M Towsley]

I am planning on ferrying a recently purchased L-2b from Livermore California to a new home in Illinois. For those who have travelled near or over the mountains, what is a safe route to take? Is there a route somewhere around the mountains? Neither I nor my former instructor, who I asked to go along, have done mountain flying and would really prefer not to if at all possible. Thanks!!!

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Safe West to East route

Basically, follow I-80 all the way. The Central Rockies are lowest along that route. It's the same route the Union Pacific RR and the Interstate Highway Engineers took. They did it for the same reason that you want to take it. It's the lowest easiest way. Good luck... scenery is great.

When you get near Laramie WY you can still see wagon ruts from the Oregon Trail headed to the Northwest in broad and wavy patterns.
With regards;
Ed O'Brien

[VictorBravo]

Re: Safe West to East route

For maximum safety and minimum mountains in the summer, add only one day to your trip and take the southern route. Unless you have 90 horsepower or better, there is a strong possibility you will not have the performance to go through I-80 at all.

Two people in a 65 or 75 horse L-2 will have little or no safety reserve above 5000 feet in my estimation. Add summer heat to that equation, with density altitudes above 7500 feet and more. You will be taking off at gross weight, two people and fuel, several times above 4000 feet and once or twice above 6000 if I recall.

Everything I just mentioned holds true for calm air. Now add downdrafts, lift and sink due to winds blowing through canyone, downwash behind even the littlest hills, etc to your equation.

Also, is your L-2 one of the "fastback" models like the civil Model D, or is it military style with the big triangular cut-outs in the wings next to the rear seat? Those cutouts were done for the Army in WW2 for visibility, but they make a huge hole in your "elliptical lift distribution"... which degrades your performance.

As I said, unless you have a healthy O-200 in the front of that L-2, you will be operating with increased safety if you go around the mountains. FWIW, my proposed route would be:

Go from Livermore down the valley to the Bakersfield area. Leaving Bakersfield with a full load and climbing up to 5000+ to get out of the valley will be your only "mountains" on the trip. As you struggle up over those hills, you will know why I suggested you stay out of the Rockies and Laramie

Then go southeast thru the Mojave desert and Twenty Nine Palms area until you can veer south to follow Interstate Highway 10. Follow I-10 through the desert east of Palm Springs, Indio, and out to Blythe, CA. Soak in the 100+ degree charm of Blythe for as long as you can stand it, refuel, and proceed along I-10 to Buckeye, AZ just west of Phoenix. Go around to the right of "South Mountain" to stay clear of Phoenix crowded airspace and hook up with I-10 again near Casa Grande, AZ.

Follow I-10 past Tucson and down into Willcox, AZ, then along I-10 into New Mexico, through Deming NM and Las Cruces NM, and finally into El Paso where you can get some help from Sabrina at West Texas airport.

From El Paso follow the roads into Carlsbad NM to stay near civilization, then you can proceed more or less on a straight line to Illinois.

I made this trip going East to West (from Kalamazoo to Los Angeles) under fairly stressful conditions, high heat and headwinds, in an 85 HP Taylorcraft in 1998. I also flew from Schaumburg Airport near Chicago to L. A. following I-80 through Laramie, SLC and down to LA in 2002 in a 150 HP Grumman Yankee and I came away with the absolute feeling that I would not have completed the trip in a stock 108 HP Yankee.

If I may be so bold, the trip you are about to make (whether flown the north or south routes) will very quickly boil down to horsepower and oil temperature if you are flying anytime between now and October. If you have low horsepower and two people, the south route may be the only one that is possible to do with any amount of safety reserve, and not much at that. If your airplane does not have provisions for an oil cooler, then I suggest you get an oil filter adaptor, the version where the filter mounts on the firewall, and then get one of those clamp on "heat sink" devices for the filter canister. Oil temperature is what will determine your throttle position most of the time in demanding conditions... so if you have some room left on the oil temp gauge you can use all of whatever horsepower you have available.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Safe West to East route

If you've got a 65HP or even 75HP plane I'd take Bill Berle's suggestion. Fly early morning (5AM-Noon) on either route. Get your altitude early, (don't try to gain coming up to the peak) cross mountain tops at plus 1000 ft minimum and at a 45 degree angle, that way if your're hit with a downdraft you're set up to turn away from the ridgeline and dive (or settle) along a fall-away slope.

Traveling west bound... most likely every ridge you come to will be a windward slope (given prevailing westerly winds) meaning you should get a rise before a settle. Hopefully your rises will match your settles (most often do) and on the east side of the slope you'll be at just about the same altitude you started.

But, monitor for changes in wind by watching the ground (water ripples from wind, dust blowing in a certain direction, grass laying away from the wind.) Call ahead for gas. Forrest fire tankers can suck up every spot of av-gas within 50miles of a working fire. And not every little podunk airport has gas all the time, or is open much either. This likely won't be a concern but it can happen.)

Save any weight you can but do take water. 2 Quarts is good for 2 men for hot weather 15-20 mile hikes over 2 days, in a pinch. Set down at any airport at the first sign of trouble. Precautions are best when flying deserts, mountains, or over-water. Take a flash light and pre-flight in the dark then lift off at first light. Longest day of the year is June 21st. There's nothing finer!
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[M Towsley]

Re: Safe West to East route

Bill and Ed,

Thanks, this is what I was looking for. You called it, though, 75 hp and two folks with minor luggage. I'm thinking the south route is where it's at. I have zilch mountain flying and my friend flys airliners over the mountains, so no sweat normally for him. Any further info would be greatly appreciated. Bill, are those all approximatle fuel stops that you listed? Thanks again!!!

[Vasey fan]

Re: Safe West to East route

For a variation on Bill's route, I like to go north from Demming, up the Rio Grande on the west side of the White Sands range. Gas at Alexander-Belen, east (more or less) to Tucumcari, then on to Liberal, KS.

I've done it in May, June & July, but solo every time. IIRC, neither Belen or Tucumcari is much higher than Las Cruces. (I've eaten A LOT of runway at Cruces ).

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Safe West to East route

Wear the pants you've got, take t-shirts and underwear, toiletries. When it gets hot use some of your water to soak your t-shirt. It's great air-conditioning. Plus it's likely the only wet-shirt contest your wives will think OK. Get down before the summer showers and TCells build. We're starting an early monsoon season in the SouthWest. Thunderstorms can have you circumnavigating for hours and put you places you're not happy going. Over-night temps around Phoenix and desert SW can stay above 100 degrees. Bring something to keep sun off the cockpit and rear too. You'll fry even the fullest head of hair. Make some shade for yourself. Me being damn near bald... I'd bring some sunscreen too. So think about every little thing twice, watch your plane's gages and temps, and have fun. Actually, it should be a great trip. I've done it more times than I can remember but not enough get tired of it.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN
Denver CO.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Safe West to East route

Fuel stops for you to consider:

Madera has fuel but is high on price as of two weeks ago. Don't ask how I know. Hopefully you can make it from Livermore all the way to Bakersfield without any problem.

Bakersfield Municipal (southern side of the city, NOT the larger KBFL Meadows airport) has a big EAA chapter that built a lot of RV homebuilts, the home of the Harmon Rocket. They used to have a coffee shop on the field. Lots of EAA activity and friendly to little airplanes.

Lancaster WJF Fox Field has fuel and a coffee shop, but if you fueled up at Bakersfield you won't need it. Tehachapi municipal airport has fuel. There's a glider airport a mile south that does not sell gas, but has a lot of friendly people to help if you're in a pinch. BOTH airports in Tehachapi are over 4000 feet MSL.

When going through the south Mojave desert, be mindful of the restricted airspace for Edwards AFB and USMC 29 palms. The airport in Palmdale (aka USAF Plant 42) is a complete "stay away!". That's Lockheed and Air Force territory and they have stuff there you're not supposed to see. Stay to the south of that airport.

Crystal airport is another gilder field with no fuel available, but you can land there if you have a problem. Fred Robinson is the owner, and tell him a sailplane pilot asked if you could land there if needed... he might be a little crabby but nothing bad will happen. Watch for sailplanes in the vicinity doing aerobatics and training, from ground level to 12,500 ft. Look off to the right and enjoy the view of the mountains between you and the Los Angeles area.

DO NOT land at El Mirage or Grey Butte airports. Predator UAV drones are born and tested there. Security guards, guns, no welcome mat. You can land on El Mirage dry lake and you can land at Krey field (yet another gliderport but nothing more than a dirt strip).

Apple Valley is a good stop, airport coffee shop on site and friendly to little airplanes. They have fuel but it's self-serve if I recall. There is a guy based there who has restored several Taylorcrafts and now has an RV-4.

From Apple Valley I'd suggest detouring south through the gap in the mountains past Hi Desert and Yucca Valley airports, and into the Palm Springs area. Stay out of Palm Springs, it's for airliners and corporate jets mostly these days. There's gas listed at Bermuda Dunes but I've never been there. They have a residential air park. check gas prices before you go.

From the Palm Springs area all the way to El Paso TX, my sincere advice is not to be any further from Interstate Highway 10 than you care to walk in 100+ heat and snakes. If you've never flown over the Western deserts, you'll understand why I say this the first time you look off in any direction from that highway. Yes I'm being a smart ass but it's pretty much like Death Valley National Park for hundreds of miles. You do have to take it seriously. All respects to Ed, two quarts of water is not nearly enough to have out in that area in summer. You'll drink a gallon of water walking around there on a hot day and wish you had more.

I would fuel up in that area, somewhere like Hi Desert, Yucca Valley, Bermuda Dunes or even the civilian airport at 29 Palms if you go around that way. Regardless, your next available fuel stop is Blythe, in the middle of nowhere, and the next one after that is Buckeye AZ. Plan your XC range ahead of time, check all the gas prices on the net, then figure out where your best and safest trip legs will fall. If you can fuel up at 29P or UDD and make it all the way to Buckeye with some reserve, then great. If it is marginal for your airplane then you have to stop at Blythe and deal with the heat and possibly high gas prices. But Blythe is a live-able oasis way out in the middle of nowhere, with restaurants and motels in town.

Buckeye has fuel (or did in 1998) and can be deserted like a ghost town. There was some sort of a shop/hangar there that may be able to provide some services if you need them.

Southeast of Buckeye, I'd fly just outside of the PHX Class B complex, towards Stellar Airpark. If you get stuck there, ask for the guy who owns Stellar Performance Aviation. I forgot his name but he bought my Grumman Yankee and is a great guy.

If you can make it to Casa Grande, stop in and find Sonny Zapata. He will remember the strange Taylorcraft Auster I flew through there, July 4 1992, and Sonny fixed my intermittent magnetos. He figured prominently in a story I wrote up about my flight in the Auster which is available for reading on the Taylorcraft Club website.

When flying towards Tucson, you'll see Marana, which wwas once called Marana Airpark. This was not an air park, it was a private airport operated by CIA contractors at one point. I have heard persistent rumors that the CIA assisted with some flight training for fairly un-savory types, and then looked the other way when the un-savories used that training to operate an ad hoc night time delivery service across nearby US borders. I have no idea if that is still the case, and Marana is now listed as a public civil airport with fuel and whatever... but I'm an 'old school' glider pilot and Marana is still not on my "land and walk around with a camera" list.

Willcox, AZ is where I bought the Auster from a nice guy named Dan Norton. That was 1992 so I don't know if he still lives there, but the guy who manages the airport at Willcox was very helpful and let me use his shop. If you stop in Willcox, they have fuel, and see if you can find Dan Norton and say hello for me.

From there, it's Lordsburg, Deming and Las Cruces New Mexico. They all have gas and motels etc. I stayed overnight in Deming, only because my mother was stationed there in WW2. Depending on your fuel situation you can stop at one of them or pass them all up and head for West Texas airport just past El Paso.

From there, you're in Sabrina's hands, she knows that area far better than I do. But when I came back from Michigan in my T-craft coming the other way, I went past Hobbs and landed in Cavern City NM, which is Carlsbad. There is a big municipal airport, fuel, and people walking around. 'Brie says that Hudspeth County Texas can be kind of lonely... I'd stay near the highways until you get up into an area where there's more airports and towns.

I hope this dissertation helps. Sorry for the length of this post. Anywhere in the Mojave Desert area, if you have any trouble just call me 818-701-6801 and I'll help if I can.

Bill

[Edwin Otha]

Re: Safe West to East route

Marty,
I agree with Bill on the route. I,ve flown ferry flights via both routes and think the L2 would be happier on the southern route. Keep a watch on the weather in the Gulf of Mexico. This time of year it can move in quick. Dont rely on your GPS,coverage in some areas can be sketchy.
If you need any assistance at Livermore, call Red Sky Aviation (925)294-9703. Our family runs the flight school.
This sounds like Mark Shrick,s airplane.
EO

[lktiller]

Re: Safe West to East route

Is this the L2 that was at NutTree about three weeks ago? They said it was to be transported somewhere east.
I stopped at NutTree while visiting my Grandkids at Travis AFB. LOTS of history there.

Larry @ Gadsden AL

[VictorBravo]

Re: Safe West to East route

Marty, one more thing... buy your charts now, get a fluorescent pink highlighter, and after you have figured out your course legs mark the entire route on the chart with the highlighter. Buy sectional charts not WAC, because I found out the hard way the WAC charts don't have the 3 letter identifier codes for all the airports.

You'll have lots of time on the trip to think and fret, which is normal. Worrying whether the GPS is telling the truth is also normal on long flights in a slow airplane.

So, you sould be able to look at your course line at all times, and say to yourself " over there is a small lake shaped like a boomerang, with a little town just off the East tip... OK that's it, I know that I'm in the place where the GPS tells me I am." Not only does that boost your confidence and reduce the stress of the flight, it also prepares you for if/when the GPS does not have coverage, or runs out of battery.

Have a great flight, and the biggest key to safety is to give yourself the luxury of time. If it takes two days in Hayseed, Kansas to wait out a storm, then wait it out. If your airplane is not climbing well and seems like it is huffing and puffing more than it should, then only fly from dawn to noon and 5PM ro 8PM, and relax in the afternoons. If the airplane is not running right, find some help and fix it.

If you happen to stop in Childress, TX and have a stuck exhaust valve, have old Horace the airport manager find you the local IA mechanic, who also happens to be the local preacher in the next town of Quanah, TX. He's a great guy and fixed my stuck valve in a couple of hours.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Safe West to East route

Back in the day -- Sorry but I'm a history buff. The Army/Navy Cross Country Route was established. Planes and People couldn't challenge mountains and winter so the route they we're talking about became the air-route-of-preference. The Navy and Army AirCorp established bases about every 50 miles along this route. It's the reason there was an air-base at Roswell NM for the Space Aliens to visit, and Capt. Billy Mitchell of El Paso, TX, to launch scouting missions into Mexico for Poncho Villa, and Charles Lindberg's first flight in the Spirit of St. Louis was along here too from San Diego, CA. to St. Louis, MO.

When planes got fast, high and all weather feathers, post WW2, the helicopter was still a sick little duck that needed
a low and slow cross country route. This was it. It's had all sort of names. On my Dad's Charts from the early 50s it was called the military low altitude "something" In military
fighter guy parlance they'd call it something like "mother-in-law road." If anybody has this piece of the story let me know. I can't seem to find the right chart and I'm trying to confirm this part. BUT, on I go with little more dithering.

Look at old charts and you'll see the many bases and airports that defined this route. For fliers of the 20s and 30s this was the Route 66 (which it was), the Southwest passage (which it also was), the Panama Canal (which it wasn't) of little birds who fought gravity to a stand still at about 6500 feet. Fly this route and every foot of it, both horizontally and vertically, is filled with history. If you're a railroad buff you want to see Promintory UT. where the Golden Spike was driven and Continental rail service began. But if you fly in small planes... this is your route-of- rememberence. This is where the word Cross Country flew into the pilots lexicon.

With regards;
Ed O'Brien

[VictorBravo]

Re: Safe West to East route

Ed, correct me if I am wrong here, but I think you just explained why there are so many "triangular" airports here in the southwest... you can go to little airports with one runway and still see the outline of the other two, and you can go to a big international airport and still see the original triangle pattern someplace on the field. You can feel the history and the spirits of all who have flown this way decades ago.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Safe West to East route

Bill;
Triangled airports are old Air Force/Army Air Corps fields.
Three triangled runways was so they always had a windward landing which is different from Navy fields of the same period. Navy fields from the 30s and 40s have huge mats. They'll look like a futbol pitch (sorry I've been watching too much World Cup) Mostly these are now farm fields or new straight runways, but the outlines persist. It was so Navy fighters could always take off and land into the wind. A couple of thousand feet long by several hundred yards wide. They'd also take off several abreast and form up as their wheels came up. That was so they'd group and fly and not waste time and gas. This was long before mid-air refueling when everything that flew was a tail dragger. Look for it.

At Tuscon International, when I lived there in the late 60s, there was a aircraft carrier type landing wire for Yuma based fighters. I've forgotten to look for it on my trips back there recently... so I don't know if they still have it. I saw them operate it once for a Navy/Marine fighter without a parachute on his butt. Thrust reversers and good brakes weren't invented yet.

Lot's of fun stuff -- every mile... if you know what you're looking at -- the smiles per mile are pure pleasure, along that route.

By the way I found the acronym. Miller, actually MILR also known as Mother-in-law. You could walk into operations and file BFF-dir-Roswell-MILR-NNI- and they'd know it was (Buckley Navy Field, Denver-direct Roswell NM-Mother-inlaw-Navy, North Island, San Deigo.)
With regards;
Ed O'Brien

[Armstrong]

Re: Safe West to East route

Thanks Ed and Bill for a great thread.
Singly or between the two of you there is a great cross country book about the history and how to's of flying this route.
Write it, and you would sell alot of copies. Rob