160 hp F-19

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: 160 hp F-19

Can't help but think one would have to do some beefing up of the rear spar if he wanted to install flaps.

I already did that and regret not installing the flaps. My spars are as tall and
thick as the F-22. Flaps are great when you have lots of hp and are flying at
higher weights. My friend with the 0-290 doesn't have flaps and regrets this
decision as well . Light,low HP, and no flaps good, heavy lots of power and flaps good. I'm kinda in the middle, If lighter probably would have been better, still not too bad though, well at least at the lower weights.

[S2D]

Re: 160 hp F-19

Can't help but think one would have to do some beefing up of the rear spar if he wanted to install flaps.

[Dick Smith]

Re: F-19 wiith flaps...

Rob, the 150 hp plane was the one with flaps on it...it has a 160 now. The flaps let you lower the nose and get a great sink-rate without building speed, all the time being able to see straight ahead, very nice when operating on a marginal strip. I use the slip like everyone else with my own plane...but every time I remember the flapped plane...I can't help but grin! Dick

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: 160 hp F-19

Pasted the following from A-696 TCDS:

Regarding the BCS12D-85
Landplane: Level flight or climb 105 m.p.h.
(True Indicated) Glide or dive 142 m.p.h.
Seaplane: Level flight or climb 95 m.p.h.
Glide or dive 128 m.p.h.

For the F-19, Looking at TCDS 1A9, we see:
Airspeed Limits VP (Maneuvering)
(Normal) 87 mph (76 knots)(True Indicated)
(Utility) 86 mph (75 knots)
Vno (Maximum Structural (Normal) 108 mph (94 knots)
Cruising) (Utility) 104 mph (90 knots)

Vne (Never Exceed)
(Normal) 136 mph (118 knots) (I couldn't find a VNE listed for a F-19 on floats...anyone out there know?)
(Utility) 141 mph (123 knots)

The 3 Taylorcrafts I have flown with the above-mentioned mods were a 135, a 150 and a 160...all 3 were not the older 1946 era machines. They were F-19's. They weren't intended to be fast...they were intended to get a serious load off the ground or water. They certainly do that. They are plenty stout. I never needed to operate them at speeds even close to VNE. As far as fuel burn, one plane, an experimental, carried 52 gals....so urine was more of a concern than petrol.

Did you have flaps on any of these models and if so what was the difference?

[S2D]

Re: 160 hp F-19

unless I'm mistaken its not the same type certificate between the F-19 and the F-22. ?

1A9 covers F19 thru F-22 and the old straight 19

Not something I would undertake, but its there, it just needs to be useful. Or restored to original and the FFWD put on an experimental.

[VictorBravo]

Re: 160 hp F-19

My mistake, it is indeed not a 60 year old airplane. So the concern is indeed not quite as sever... but... unless I'm mistaken its not the same type certificate between the F-19 and the F-22. Forrest?

[S2D]

Re: 160 hp F-19

That would be flying in a very unsafe manner, and would probably result in some kind of damage or crash. Taking a 60 year old airplane, doing an average restoration (as opposed to a full skeletal X-ray and metallurgical test), and then flying it on a lot more power at or near the redline speed for extended periods, compounded by the extra airframe stresses from flying on floats, is stupid. I never thought I'd say this, but I hope the FAA or MOT does NOT approve that modification.

Well I hate to say this, but 2009-1975 = 34 years. this is not a 1946 B model, it is a 1975 F model, using the same exact materials as the 1990's F models that had a 180 horse engine in them, so altho I apprecieate your concerns, I think it is unfounded.

[Dick Smith]

Re: 160 hp F-19

Pasted the following from A-696 TCDS:

Regarding the BCS12D-85
Landplane: Level flight or climb 105 m.p.h.
(True Indicated) Glide or dive 142 m.p.h.
Seaplane: Level flight or climb 95 m.p.h.
Glide or dive 128 m.p.h.

For the F-19, Looking at TCDS 1A9, we see:
Airspeed Limits VP (Maneuvering)
(Normal) 87 mph (76 knots)(True Indicated)
(Utility) 86 mph (75 knots)
Vno (Maximum Structural (Normal) 108 mph (94 knots)
Cruising) (Utility) 104 mph (90 knots)

Vne (Never Exceed)
(Normal) 136 mph (118 knots) (I couldn't find a VNE listed for a F-19 on floats...anyone out there know?)
(Utility) 141 mph (123 knots)

The 3 Taylorcrafts I have flown with the above-mentioned mods were a 135, a 150 and a 160...all 3 were not the older 1946 era machines. They were F-19's. They weren't intended to be fast...they were intended to get a serious load off the ground or water. They certainly do that. They are plenty stout. I never needed to operate them at speeds even close to VNE. As far as fuel burn, one plane, an experimental, carried 52 gals....so urine was more of a concern than petrol.

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: 160 hp F-19

That would be flying in a very unsafe manner, and would probably result in some kind of damage or crash. Taking a 60 year old airplane, doing an average restoration (as opposed to a full skeletal X-ray and metallurgical test), and then flying it on a lot more power at or near the redline speed for extended periods, compounded by the extra airframe stresses from flying on floats, is stupid. I never thought I'd say this, but I hope the FAA or MOT does NOT approve that modification. That would put all the reasonable modifications and common-sense-keeping T-craft owners at serious risk. Sorry, whoever is thinking about that kind of a mod is "playing with a loaded gun while other people's kids are in the room". I think we as a group should oppose this, with my sincere apologies for causing an inconvenience to the guy proposing the modification.

I think your a little too late on this one as approval is already done for
the 150hp, they have been flying for 20-30 years . Alsworth conversion
isn't it? The 160 is just a high compression version of the 150 and will
fit on the same mount. Not sure if there would be much red tape . Personally
I feel the C90 or 0-200 on a light plane like the T is best. My mistake was
adding to many bells and whistles . Then again mine is 1020 on 1650 floats
so on wheels I'd be around 875. Thats not too bad really.

[akndrifter]

Re: 160 hp F-19

I don't believe this is a new mod around these parts. I've not heard of anyone having issues with them, but the redline is there for a good reason. However I'm sure its not that economic. If you want something to go that fast get a Pacer, more room, more useful load, flaps, and lots of parts. And you would probably have about the same into it.

[VictorBravo]

Re: 160 hp F-19

I wouldn't be surprised if he would cruise at 140 on floats. My friend cruises at 125 with the 125hp and that is with 1800 floats. Wide open yields 135mph and that is only 125hp. I mean what is the Vne for the T, isn't it 135 ??

That would be flying in a very unsafe manner, and would probably result in some kind of damage or crash. Taking a 60 year old airplane, doing an average restoration (as opposed to a full skeletal X-ray and metallurgical test), and then flying it on a lot more power at or near the redline speed for extended periods, compounded by the extra airframe stresses from flying on floats, is stupid. I never thought I'd say this, but I hope the FAA or MOT does NOT approve that modification. That would put all the reasonable modifications and common-sense-keeping T-craft owners at serious risk. Sorry, whoever is thinking about that kind of a mod is "playing with a loaded gun while other people's kids are in the room". I think we as a group should oppose this, with my sincere apologies for causing an inconvenience to the guy proposing the modification.

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: 160 hp F-19

No flaps.

Just thinking about 160 hp on a T. That thing will be a rocket. I wouldn't be surprised if he would cruise at 140 on floats. My friend cruises at 125 with the 125hp and that is with 1800 floats. Wide open yields 135mph and that is
only 125hp. I mean what is the Vne for the T, isn't it 135 ??

Robert

[S2D]

Re: 160 hp F-19

Does he have the flaps too? A friend of mine has his F19 with 0-290 1800

No flaps.

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: 160 hp F-19

thanks for all the answers.
Not my aircraft.
Just trying to help a guy out that has it and wants it legal so he can fly it.
has big tanks, 180 mount F-22 cowl skylight etc.

Does he have the flaps too? A friend of mine has his F19 with 0-290 1800
Edo floats . He has great performance in the air cruising at 120 but cannot
get into and out of tight spots. He's now looking at a Supercub with 160hp
and flaps so he can drop into and get out of a small lake where he lives at
present. Problem is with the T is that it is so fast once he breaks water he
is at the end of the lake and can barely clear the 50ft trees.

Where is your friend with the big tanks, 180 mount and F-22 cowl ? If you don't mind and a name too if you could.

[akndrifter]

Re: 160 hp F-19

I believe a lady that I know, her brother and father did extensive work souping up tcarts. I could give you her phone number if you want.