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Originally posted by crispy critter
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Bill,
I have owned several t-craft's in the past and had to replace several struts due to rust in the lower 3-12 inchs(primarily in the rear struts of pre-war birds,but some post war too). A couple of them would have never been noticed had I not took the time to punch around on them with an awle(punch/ice pick).The paint looked great but with just a little lite pressure with a sharp object there was a hole were a hole should not be!
Here is my 2 cents worth on everything.....The people who have good original struts that have been careed for properly over the years and hangered most of the time have all the reason in the word to question this AD,or at least some of the testing methods.However they too could be fooled upon inspection therefore once they have them inspected and find nothing wrong then they will be even more upset,BUT,for those who think there struts are fine then find a problem during the inspection are going to be greatful and maybe at least one or two lives saved in the future(that's worth the cost and aggervation to me).
The Piper guys lost a few people before they got an AD....do we want to wait until our planes start falling out of the sky due to a tight wallet or just being stubbern? Some of our birds(no all and not many) have a problem in this area so lets check them all and be safe.
About the Dave Wiley bird,it was a pre-war airplane with lighter steel tubing used to make the fuslage and all ajoinning fittings. The pre-war birds are a little more subject to have rust or cracks around the gear and strut fittings on the fuslage,especially one that has spent the best part of the last 30 years on floats and used for flight training. So here you have a bird that hadn't been apart in many years,spent 90% of it's time outside on the water flying almost daily doing(forgive me if I am wrong about this part) float training which is a little abusive to an airframe to say the least. I have owned one pre-war project that I flew home and after disassembly I found that it had a moderate amount of rust around the strut fittings and the lower longerons. I have had several post war birds and have seen rust problems in almost every place except the strut fittings. I don't think the strut fittings need an AD on the post war airplanes...not yet anyway.
Bill,I didin't mean to direct this at you but it seemed like a good quote to reply too. You ask for proof and I have at least 8 rusty struts in the top of my hanger.If you would like to see them I will try to get some pics sometime next week when I get caught up a little bit.
In short, I think the strut AD is a good thing based on what I have seen in the past. I think you'll find the outside birds,coastal birds,float birds, and pre-war birds are going to be more subject to the good of the AD. As for the possiblity of a strut fitting or longeron AD.I think it should be subject to only those with the lighter steel tubing(pre-war birds) or float equipped birds for now.
As for the guy with the vented tail post.....watch it closely,if it doesn't have rust somewhere in it then it will have eventually unless the airplane has been in Arizona or New Mexico all it's life. Most or all of the t-crafts had a hole in the tail post but was always sealed with a rivit or some type of something to seal it unless it was a factory seaplane(Forrest,please correct me if I'm wrong but I think I'm correct). I think they left it open on the seaplane incase water managed to find a way in.
Now about all the fuss over buying or inspecting. If I was comfortable in thinking my struts were still fine then by all means save money and have them inspected. For those of you who are not sure and you elect to have them inspected remember if you have one,two,three,or all four fail then you will not only have to pay for the inspection and all labor assotiated with it but you will also have to pay for struts too. So,when you have them inspected make sure you are also aware that they might not pass.
As for the Univair verses Factory....most know that I was disappointed once by the factory but at least now they are trying to make parts and no payment until you get what you ordered. There struts priced seperatly are compatible with Univairs price as well. Just remember if you just buy the struts then you will have to make or buy new jury strut clamps also because all the new strut reguardless of who you buy them from are a larger diameter then the originals. As for everyone blaming the factory for this AD....maybe they started the wheels in motion but the FAA has been investigating it for the last couple of years or longer and if they didn't find any reasons for the AD then I'm sure we would not have it now.
I'm not defending or putting down the factory at this time but simply stating that everyone who has ordered anything from them in the last few months have got there parts and nobody has been stiffed! I was shocked about two weeks ago when my father(why him,his number is listed,mine is not) had a message for me on his answering machine from Harry Ingram himself. He had read my post on this forum about Crispy and what I had said about needing a factory jig if I wanted to repair my badly damaged fuslage and offered to let me use the factory jig for FREE!!!!!! . I tried to call the factory number twice but did not get an answer..just a machine and I didn't leave a message. Right now I'm am considering two other options; one is a complete fuslage from a straight project with no papers but haven't gotten a definate answer from the owner yet on price.The second is a good forward section that has a rusty tail section but I haven't looked at it yet. If niether of these work out then I will try a little harder to get up with Harry on his offer and see what the details are.
Now,if you want to buy new struts and don't trust the factory then call Univair. My advice is if the factory has them at a compatable price then give them a try...they will accept COD so you risk nothing but a little extra time if they don't come threw for ya. Plus,as I stated before, they haven't stiffed anyone in a while,they are trying, they accept COD, and if they can get it together and make it work then we will have unlimited new parts. Ya never know,if they can get back on thier feet, then the people who lost parts or money might be able to get it back.
I have owned several t-craft's in the past and had to replace several struts due to rust in the lower 3-12 inchs(primarily in the rear struts of pre-war birds,but some post war too). A couple of them would have never been noticed had I not took the time to punch around on them with an awle(punch/ice pick).The paint looked great but with just a little lite pressure with a sharp object there was a hole were a hole should not be!
Here is my 2 cents worth on everything.....The people who have good original struts that have been careed for properly over the years and hangered most of the time have all the reason in the word to question this AD,or at least some of the testing methods.However they too could be fooled upon inspection therefore once they have them inspected and find nothing wrong then they will be even more upset,BUT,for those who think there struts are fine then find a problem during the inspection are going to be greatful and maybe at least one or two lives saved in the future(that's worth the cost and aggervation to me).
The Piper guys lost a few people before they got an AD....do we want to wait until our planes start falling out of the sky due to a tight wallet or just being stubbern? Some of our birds(no all and not many) have a problem in this area so lets check them all and be safe.
About the Dave Wiley bird,it was a pre-war airplane with lighter steel tubing used to make the fuslage and all ajoinning fittings. The pre-war birds are a little more subject to have rust or cracks around the gear and strut fittings on the fuslage,especially one that has spent the best part of the last 30 years on floats and used for flight training. So here you have a bird that hadn't been apart in many years,spent 90% of it's time outside on the water flying almost daily doing(forgive me if I am wrong about this part) float training which is a little abusive to an airframe to say the least. I have owned one pre-war project that I flew home and after disassembly I found that it had a moderate amount of rust around the strut fittings and the lower longerons. I have had several post war birds and have seen rust problems in almost every place except the strut fittings. I don't think the strut fittings need an AD on the post war airplanes...not yet anyway.
Bill,I didin't mean to direct this at you but it seemed like a good quote to reply too. You ask for proof and I have at least 8 rusty struts in the top of my hanger.If you would like to see them I will try to get some pics sometime next week when I get caught up a little bit.
In short, I think the strut AD is a good thing based on what I have seen in the past. I think you'll find the outside birds,coastal birds,float birds, and pre-war birds are going to be more subject to the good of the AD. As for the possiblity of a strut fitting or longeron AD.I think it should be subject to only those with the lighter steel tubing(pre-war birds) or float equipped birds for now.
As for the guy with the vented tail post.....watch it closely,if it doesn't have rust somewhere in it then it will have eventually unless the airplane has been in Arizona or New Mexico all it's life. Most or all of the t-crafts had a hole in the tail post but was always sealed with a rivit or some type of something to seal it unless it was a factory seaplane(Forrest,please correct me if I'm wrong but I think I'm correct). I think they left it open on the seaplane incase water managed to find a way in.
Now about all the fuss over buying or inspecting. If I was comfortable in thinking my struts were still fine then by all means save money and have them inspected. For those of you who are not sure and you elect to have them inspected remember if you have one,two,three,or all four fail then you will not only have to pay for the inspection and all labor assotiated with it but you will also have to pay for struts too. So,when you have them inspected make sure you are also aware that they might not pass.
As for the Univair verses Factory....most know that I was disappointed once by the factory but at least now they are trying to make parts and no payment until you get what you ordered. There struts priced seperatly are compatible with Univairs price as well. Just remember if you just buy the struts then you will have to make or buy new jury strut clamps also because all the new strut reguardless of who you buy them from are a larger diameter then the originals. As for everyone blaming the factory for this AD....maybe they started the wheels in motion but the FAA has been investigating it for the last couple of years or longer and if they didn't find any reasons for the AD then I'm sure we would not have it now.
I'm not defending or putting down the factory at this time but simply stating that everyone who has ordered anything from them in the last few months have got there parts and nobody has been stiffed! I was shocked about two weeks ago when my father(why him,his number is listed,mine is not) had a message for me on his answering machine from Harry Ingram himself. He had read my post on this forum about Crispy and what I had said about needing a factory jig if I wanted to repair my badly damaged fuslage and offered to let me use the factory jig for FREE!!!!!! . I tried to call the factory number twice but did not get an answer..just a machine and I didn't leave a message. Right now I'm am considering two other options; one is a complete fuslage from a straight project with no papers but haven't gotten a definate answer from the owner yet on price.The second is a good forward section that has a rusty tail section but I haven't looked at it yet. If niether of these work out then I will try a little harder to get up with Harry on his offer and see what the details are.
Now,if you want to buy new struts and don't trust the factory then call Univair. My advice is if the factory has them at a compatable price then give them a try...they will accept COD so you risk nothing but a little extra time if they don't come threw for ya. Plus,as I stated before, they haven't stiffed anyone in a while,they are trying, they accept COD, and if they can get it together and make it work then we will have unlimited new parts. Ya never know,if they can get back on thier feet, then the people who lost parts or money might be able to get it back.
Hi Kevin,
I have the tailpost vent (at the bottom rear). I've owned this plane in NY for 25 years (1982-2007).
Ironically the only period of time where I actually had longeron corrosion issues was during the period from 1984 to 1991 (approx) when I had mistakenly covered the hole with fabric back in 84. It was ok on 84 and bad in 91.
I believe that the vent hole is very helpful because of that experience.
I keep it clean and uncovered now.
My thinking about water and moisture is that you cannot stop it from getting but you must provide a way to get it out.
btw- I assume it will get into the top of the tailpost thru bolt holes and so on at the fin attach, that's just an assumption
Dave